The Honokai Story: Wes’side Memories

Speakers: Naomi Delos Santos (NDS) and Christina Higgins (CH) and Gisella/Sella Kahapea (SK)

Date: November 01, 2024

[Recording started mid-conversation when we were getting to know each other, sharing some family stories, and introducing ourselves.]

NDS: [Talking about a teacher’s reaction to Pidgin in school] So because of all of that, I had to learn how to speak because I would be like, I don't know, ask him. But, it wasn't ask, it was axe him. So the teacher's like, “Who do you want me to axe, with one axe?” “You want me to hit somebody with a axe?” And I couldn't understand what he was trying to tell me, but we would say axe instead of ask. So, it was hard for me, to understand what he was tryin for tell me. And he was a teacher, because that's not how we talk.

Like, we gon say, one, two, tree. And they're like, what tree? No, the number tree. No, the number three. So, it's definitely still being talked on our side of the island, for sure. But we have to teach our kids as they grow up the correck way because I didn't want my kids to struggle in school like I did. How do you struggle in elementary?

CH: There's so much to uncover about that, and you know, the reality around the world is that there's a lot of elementary-age kids struggling in school because the language of the home or the community is different from the language of school. And this is how it is in Hawaiʻi, in a lot of ways. But there's, there's not much support or acknowledgment by our Department of Education that Pidgin even exists. So historically and to the present day. So, you know, there's a lot of room for improvement still.

NDS: Are you, are you guys teaching Pidgin in college?

CH: We don't have a course where you can learn Pidgin, but we teach about it. We teach a couple classes that look at its history and its development from plantation days to present day. And then another class is really contemporary Pidgin. But, yeah I don't know if there's a lot we could talk about with language, but that's that's something that I would love to talk with you further. We can, see how it goes today and see if you're willing [laughs].

NDS: [Laughs] Okay.

CH: But yeah, it sounds like you have some stories, so I think that would be great.

NDS: [laughs]

CH: So I hope to take about an hour of your time. Please let us know if you need to take a break, you know, get up and stretch, get some water, whatever you need. I'll just finish saying a couple things about me, and then I'll invite Sella to introduce herself. So, what else is there to know?

My own personal history is U. S. military bases, traveling with my dad, who was in the army, and my mother and sister here and there. So I don't really have like one place that I call home, but I've lived in Hawai'i the longest now, in town on Oʻahu for about 20 years. And I feel very passionate about trying to contribute and make things better wherever I live, or even just learn about the places where I am, and help others to know more. So that's my stake in all of this. I hope to work with Ulukoa for a while on all the different ideas that he has, because he's super energetic and never stops coming up with stuff [laughs]. So I'm excited to know him. So maybe that's where I'll stop for now, but, any questions for me?

NDS: No, but thank you for trying to make Hawaiʻi a better place. I appreciate that.

CH: Yeah, thank you. Sella, go for it.

SK: Hi, my name is Gisella Kahapea, but you can call me Sella. That's just like the nickname I've had for years, and plus everybody pronounces my name wrong anyway, so it's just Sella [laughs]. I was born and raised on Oʻahu. I was kind of like moving around the island-ish where I was kinda more raised in Chinatown, but my parents both worked when they were younger when I was born. So, I was primarily raised over the weekends and like breaks in Makakilo side with my grandparents. Now, I currently reside in Mililani, and that's where I kind of say I'm from just because I've been here since I was about maybe 14, 15 now, so almost 10 years. So, local girl going to UH Mānoa under the Second Language Studies department.

I got really involved in Pidgin studies after kind of reflecting on my own history. Previously, what you were saying earlier of just always being told I cannot speak a certain way. I really held that type of mentality and kind of almost like shame, even though I'm local and Hawaiian. Shame, even though this is my culture, this is how I spoke growing up. But, it wasn't really until I got older and this space and this time to really talk about, well, that's me. That's my identity. Why do I feel like that? So that's kind of how I got involved with Christina and the Pidgin Center. That class that Christina was kind of talking about earlier about sharing the history and culture of Pidgin, especially giving more light on the plantation days and really setting up the context of Hawaiʻi, that's the class I'm actually going to be teaching next semester to undergraduate students. So when we met Ulukoa, and he really started to get talking about Honokai Hale specifically, I got really interested, especially since, you know, I kind of grew up in that area, but I really didn't know anything about it.

So it's really nice to formally meet you. I was reading the text threads, but there was so much going on that I was like, I don't know when to interject to be like, hey, my name is Sella, too. Nice to meet you. [NDS laughs] So I'm really glad that we have this space to really get talking with you about just anything really related to Honokai Hale, Pidgin, and just anything you want to share. So thank you.

NDS: Well, thank you. Is Kahapea your maiden name, or is that, are you married?

SK: No, no, no, no, that's my, that's my maiden name, yes.

NDS: So who, how are you related to Ed?

SK: You know, I think, wait, Ed, what's the full name? Who is he from? Where is he from? What's that?

NDS: He's from O’ahu. He's Ed Kahapea. He was a comedian, long time ago. He's also a friend of my entire family. So I think, I think somewhere down the chain, we're related to him. But I believe, I believe all the Kahapeas are related. So that might make us related.

SK: That is so interesting. I would love to, like, really get to talk to you about that. Maybe not in this space, per se. I need to call that’s da kine, my grandpa. he's, if you know Frank K. Kahapea, or that side, like Frank Kaʻanui Kahapea. He's kind of more removed from the rest of the family, but a lot of my family that I've met when I was younger, but it's kind of hard to keep in touch with everybody, is all like based on the Nānākuli side. So, possibly.

NDS: Yeah.

SK: but that's something I gotta get into. [laughs]

NDS: [Laughs]

CH: You're going to get that question again, I think [laughs].

SK: I mean, Ulukoa already asked me one time. He's like, Oh, are you related to Kaʻapea? And I'm like, possibly. [laughs]

NDS: [laughs]. Well, that's the hard part about Hawaiʻi is that there's so many, like a brother’s, wife might have fooled around with the braddah, right? So, so you get braddah, sister, cousin, all in one, yeah. So, you're related somehow down the line. A lot, a lot of people pull themself away from their family because of whatever situation they're going through. But it's still, regardless, it's still family.

SK: Oh, yeah, no, definitely. If we have the space at another time, I would love to talk more about this, just because it goes down the other pipeline of, I'm Kahapea, but then people ask me, are you Kaʻapea? Are you Kahapeʻa? And I'm like, in other instances, it's like, oh, we're all the same, but at the same time, it's like, eh, you know?

NDS: Yeah, the ʻokina and the kahakō makes a difference. Yeah.

SK: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if you don't have any more questions for me or Christina, I would love to get started in asking some questions about you.

NDS: Okay.

[Official start of the interview.]

SK: Perf. Okay, so even though we kind of introduced ourselves for the recording, if you could please share with us your name, a little bit more about where you were born, where you grew up, and you know, what kind of school you went to, all that kind of history.

NDS: Okay. My name is Naomi Delos Santos. I was born in Okinawa cause my dad was in the army. I'm the youngest of four, and so my oldest brother was born in Honolulu. My second brother and my sister were born in Oklahoma. I was around the tail end, and then we moved back home to Hawaiʻi. We lived in Kalihi for a little while until my dad purchased a house in Honokai Hale. I remember, and of course, I was really young, and I might have- they might have moved into the house in 1969. I might have stayed with my grandma. Cause I remember it being around [19]72 when I moved into Honokai Hale, but again, I was really young. So yes, my dad was the original owner. When we moved into Honokai Hale, not everybody moved in yet. It was still a lot of [vacancy], it just kind of opened.

I went to Makakilo for the first three years, kindergarten, first, and second, and then they made the school more up in Mauka Lani. Because Makakilo was growing also, they had split us up and moved, I think, all of Honokai up to Mauka Lani Elementary. From there, we went to Ilima Intermediate and then Campbell High School.

SK: Then, I guess, because now currently you're living in Arizona right now, is that correct?

NDS: Yes.

SK: Can you tell a little bit more- how come the move, or if it's like, were you the only one that also moved, or the family dispersed?

NDS: No, I was the only one that moved because I didn't make a lot of good choices, or I would make a good choice and then make 20 bad ones. I wasn't the all-star child. I got into a lot of trouble. Instead of- If you want to change your life, if you want different outcomes, you have to really make a big jump and exclude yourself from all the things that you’re doing. So that's what I had to do for me, and for my kids. You know, at some point, I was an embarrassment to my kids, and I didn't want to be that anymore.

I didn't want to have- I was always honest with my kids cause I didn't want them to get a phone call at three o'clock in the morning, our mom's dead, or our mom's in jail. So that I wouldn't have that, I just pulled myself completely out of the situation, moved to Arizona, and became a truck driver, of all things.

I have always- growing up and I tell people who wants to listen, when I was five, I used to see my dad and all my uncles, they had the garbage man that stood behind the garbage can and picked up your trash. And every Christmas and every New Year, they would leave a case of beer and a case of soda for them. And I said, I want to be a rubbish man when I grow up, and then I can trade all my beer for their soda, and I would never have to buy soda again. [all laughing] That was my dream. And so, when I moved up to Arizona, I decided to be a truck driver.

CH: How old were you about then, or what year?

NDS: When I wanted to be a garbage man?

CH: When you moved to Arizona.

NDS: I moved in 2011.

CH: Okay.

NDS: I got my license, and, well, I got clean first. Then, I got my license and then I drove around the country, delivering whatever people needed.

SK: Oh, that's great. I was just wondering too, just like, since I know, I don't want you to get also super into it, because I don't want you to share things about your past that you're uncomfortable with. But at the same time, even though you kind of removed yourself from the Honokai Hale or like the area just to, for your better improvement and all that, do you still kind of visit the family you have still in Oʻahu or Honokai in general, or is it-?

NDS: Well, I used to come home every six months to see my parents, and my mom would bring my grandma up to Vegas, and all our family would get together. All the ones that's in the mainland would get together to see my grandma. So she passed away in 2019, so there isn’t, there wasn’t much [to come back to]. I would just come home to see my mom because nobody else would come around. Then, in 2020, my mom died, so we had to sell the house. So, in 2020, I became an orphan and homeless.

So, I don't know if I can call Hawaiʻi home because I don't really have a home to go to. I mean, my, my brothers and my sister still lives there, but that's not [my] home.

SK: I see, I see. Wow.

NDS: Now I kinda feel like how other people felt when their parents died or when they moved away, that urge to wanna go back home. And you can't, 'cause there's no home to go to.

CH: What about other members of the community, like the Duhaylonsods? Do they feel like family to you? You know? Sometimes that happens, too.

NDS: Oh, of course. I was there before he was even born, so his sisters- we all grew up together. Definitely, when we see each other, we hug we kiss because it's, we don't always get to see each other.

But even when I was living there, we, I didn't see them much because I was an entertainer. So I was always singing at bars, singing at parties. The nightlife was my go-to. That's how I made my money. During the day, I'm sleeping, so we barely saw each other, but when we did, it was always a good welcome.

CH: Wow. Sounds like you have lived a life [all laughing].

NDS: I truly did [laughs].

CH: [Laughs] Yeah. I wonder, what else, what else you want to share about your family growing up in Honokai Hale? It sounds like there were some difficulties and, you know, feel free to choose what you share. But what else would you like us to know about your family?

NDS: Well, um, I was, I was reading some of the questions, and that's why I called my brother earlier today. One of my earliest memories is because we were such a small community in the middle of nowhere, really, we had to go to Waipahu to get groceries or to Nānākuli at their one store that they had back then.

So our community was really close. We would do like these fundraisers because all the kids that we, that we were, the parents had to be our coaches for baseball or for any kind of sport there was. I remember going over to the Crespo's house and it was the whole community was there. I think we were doing huli chicken and there was just these big 50, gallon tubs that they were boiling the chicken in, and we had to grab a chicken and pluck the feathers and, you know, I think I was like five or six years old and I was like, “Oh, oh, I like try!” So my mom gave me this chicken, and I'm holding it by the neck and I'm trying to pull the feathers out. And, you know, I pull out five, and I'm like, “I pau, take the chicken, I pau.” And my mom is like, “You didn't even pull out enough!” I was like, “It's hard, the chicken wants to keep the feathers!”[all laughing] And she's like, “What? [and then] I no like already!”

In our community, we, we would do a lot of things together, like, we would have auctions. I don't know where the- I just know that I had a pig, the neighbor had a cow, and, I would be like, that was my pig, we named it Kūhiō, because we got it on Kūhiō Day.

Those are my earliest memories of our community, really doing community stuff together. As far as the holidays are concerned, my mom was a Jehovah's Witness, so we wasn't allowed to do Halloween or Christmas or any of those sort of things. But I do know that the community did things. As a community, we just couldn't be a part of some of those things.

CH: What about like 4th of July kind of stuff?

NDS: It wasn't until we got older, me and my siblings, and we would venture off on our own, but it wasn't a thing in my house growing up. Well, we still had fun though [all laughing] whenever we could, you know, a lot of times I would want to go play, ride my bike with Dietrix’s older sister, and my mom is chasing me. I'm riding the bike, and she's chasing me with the car because we gotta go to church.

CH: Where was the church?

NDS: In Nānākuli.

CH: Is it still there?

NDS: Up Hakimo Road. Well, it has expanded a lot, like everything else in Hawaiʻi. So there's, a lot of Kingdom Halls all over the place. I do believe the original one on Hakimo Road and Ulehawa, I think it's still there.

CH: You know, when we were at Honokai Hale to get to know people, we kind of made a mistake because we were early, and there was a group of people there that were very friendly. I just kind of said hi, and everyone was like eating and enjoying each other's company. Turns out they were Jehovah's Witnesses from Nānākuli [laughing], and they told me that they had just changed their church language to be entirely Pidgin.

NDS: Oh yes.

CH: So, it was a fascinating moment, but I was, I was not with the right people [all laughing].

NDS: Yeah, they have grown tremendously. My nephew and my brother still goes to the Kingdom Hall. They still, they’re still baptized. I'm not, because I make too many bad choices [laughs]. But, yeah, that's, that's my earliest memories of things. As far as the trees and things that the only thing I remember is kiawe trees and not to touch it because of the thorns. [I] didn't really notice the flowers on the trees until Ulukoa wrote a song about the flowers.

CH: I didn't know he wrote a song. Wow.

NDS: He writes, he writes nice music.

CH: Tell us, do you mind if we go back to your comment on being an entertainer, being a singer? And, maybe more, tell us more about that world, that, how did that come to be? And yeah, that’d be fascinating.

NDS: So funny story, I went to Campbell High School. Like I said, where we live, we went from Makakilo to Mauka Lani to Ilima to Campbell. And then, I got kicked out of Campbell, and Nānākuli was the only school that would accept me because I was naughty. Anyway, went to Nānākuli, entered into the Brown Bags to Stardom, and I came in first place for Nānākuli.

So I represented Nānākuli in the big show at The Waikīkī Shell. It was really nice how Nānākuli really took me in. Because they had shuttled a bus for all the students to come. Because we was so far away from where the contest was going to be, they shuttled a bus, a school bus, to bring all, everybody down. It was, it was really nice. There was, Nohelani Cipriano, Don Ho, Genoa Keawe, there was all these big singers, they were judges. And so after I, I came in second place to, well, first place as a soloist, but second place overall, Naleo Pili Mehana came in first place with the song Local Boys.

Anyway, after, after that, I started singing with Don Ho at the Dome, where he used to sing. He actually took me under his wing, and he was really nice to me. The amount of money he was paying me to do two songs was unheard of, but I was very thankful. And he said, “You working with me, I want you to know what it feels like to sing in this kind of arena to make this kind of money. When you venture off on your own, you're gonna see how hard it is as a singer just coming out of high school. There's dues you need to pay before you can become somebody.”

I've learned what it was like to make $500 a song. I also know what it's like to make $50 a night. Either way you look at it, you sing with different people trying to make a band. People will go for somewhere else for the night for a dollar more. To keep a band, as a solo singer, and trying to make a band, it's not easy because they will go somewhere else if somebody pays them more money. Sometimes I wouldn't have a bass player, so I would have to put my ukulele down, and I would have to play bass, which I didn't know how to do. But I just had to do it because I didn't have a bass player. I got to travel, do a lot of traveling. Got to go places that I probably couldn't afford other than that. You know, singing in different places, it was nice.

CH: Do you still perform?

NDS: No, I don't. The downside of performing is the days that you make your most money is New Year's, Christmas. Not being able to be with my family was the hardest part about being a musician. I really haven't sang since my dad died because I can't seem to get my emotions under control. Once I can get my emotions under control, I think I'll be okay to go back and sing, but you have to give everything in you as a singer, and that brings up all the emotions. That's what you need to do when you sing, and I can't stop crying once I start singing, so.

CH: Yeah, it's like a gateway to the soul, right? Goodness. Okay, Sella, I'm sorry I redirected her.

SK: No, no, I was [also] so interested, but I'm also just like, I guess to kind of, you can also not answer this, this is just kind of my own question of, was like music a big part in your household? Was it like, you kind of love singing with the family? Was this something you kind of just did on your free time? Or was this something that just came up naturally once you got older and you're like, you know what, I want to do something fun. I want to do something for me.

NDS: Honestly, nobody in my house played music or sang. My uncle, my mom's brother did, my, one of my grandma's brothers did. But when you're in high school and you're like, “Well, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? What, what can I do that doesn't take a college education?” And then I said, okay, I'm just going to sing because I don't need a college education for that. And that's what got me into singing. I was like, whatever. Let's do this.

SK: That's really cool.

NDS: I should have got a college education [all laughing].

CH: There's different paths, you know, that make sense.

SK: When you did sing or when you made music or, you know, lyrics and stuff like that, what kind of stuff did you focus on? Was it you know, your life, the surrounding area? I know you said Ulukoa made a song about trees. So I just like, really found that cool.

NDS: Well, the flower, the flower on the kiawe tree.

SK: Oh, oh yeah.

NDS: Because people really, people really overlook the flower because the thorn, right? And they use the kiawe just to start dere fire, to start cooking, nobody really notices the flower. That's one thing about Ulukoa is he notices things that everybody else overlooks. That's one thing really good about him. That's what makes him unique because he truly does see the little things.

CH: It's good he became an anthropologist [archaeologist] [all laughing].

NDS: Right? And then going, and then traveling around the world and speaking all these different languages and speaking it well. Like I like to think I speak well, but I, I don't even speak English well.

CH: I disagree. [all laughing]

NDS: You know, I mean up here, I have to, my girlfriend has to come with me everywhere because I would talk to people, and they're looking at me and she says the exact same thing, but they understand her. I don't know what's going on [laughing].

CH: Where's she from?

NDS: She's born and raised in California. When she's around local people, her Pidgin comes out.

CH: Oh okay.

NDS: Because her family is from Kauai. From Hanalei. But I don't- she says the exact same words I do. She goes, “Oh, it's the way I phrase it.” Like, I would ask somebody, “Hey, where Naka stay?” And they're like, “Where he staying? What?” Like, “where Naka stay?” And then here comes Tammy, “Where is Naka?” Well, I just said dat.

CH: [Laughing] Yeah, the stay confuses English speakers, for sure.

SK: Well, to kind of redirect a little bit back to, because I know you mentioned since you do have the questions talking about the trees. Do you have any, like, memories about the countryside, like, changing in general? I know you just said, like, earlier, you know, it's isolated, but you remember the development of the houses, development of, like, Makakilo side. If you can speak a little bit more about what you remember from then, how that changed, just how you felt about the island on that side too?

NDS: Where I remember the most, is from behind my house. Everything was just rocks and trees, kiawe trees, just rocks. You would see a lot of little graves, you know, because it wasn't [built yet]. Honokai Hale was the only thing that they built. There was nothing, just sugarcane, rocks, and kiawe trees, right? And there would be just the roads for the trucks, for the sugarcane.

So, right across the street from Ulukoa's house is the Gouveias, and right now, there's a fire hydrant there, but before there was like this, this pole that went up, like a hangman, kind of pole. And the trucks would come over there and pull the string, and it would fill up the water in their trucks. So, when we were younger and we was hot, we would just pull da string and fill the watah. [All laughing] Until we got into trouble. We used to go down Campbell Industrial Park and make that first right, and there was a chicken farm there, and everybody would go and get their trays of eggs from this lady. You could only go that way and still gotta come back around. But from the end of Honokai Hale, there's a dead end before you make the third right. You could see the chicken farm, but you couldn't get there any other way because of the sugarcanes. Now over dere, I think where her chicken farm was is, I tink, Denny's. And the newspaper place that, that, well, they have like Target and all of those stores above right there, that used to be a chicken farm. Then, like I said, behind our house, it was like a straight line. So it was like us, Verna Mae, and the who’s that, the Gella's house, it was all rocks. Then there was that one dirt road for the trucks. We would go walk down, down there to the beach, go get one stick of sugarcane, go swimming. When we hungry, we just eat the sugarcane, walk back home. Now, we cannot even walk down that road without going through security because now it's Ko Olina.

CH: How long did it take to walk to the beach when you could?

NDS: You know, I don't [know], I can't even tell you that. Cause, because first of all, my mom said, “You cannot go to till you 15 and you cannot go till you this tall.” And I was like, man, I'm never getting that tall, and I really never got that tall. [All laughing] So just going down there, it was just fun. You know, you just skipping, you just walking it, skipping. It was a carefree time. The only time you really need to know is when the sun go down and the lights come on, you better be in the house. There was, there was no time. I honestly can't tell you how long it took to walk down there. But it didn't, it didn't feel long at all.

CH: Did you guys ride your bikes?

NDS: Sometimes, if you had a bike, you could ride it. But we would just walk and we never ever worried about a tidal wave because of how far away the beach was. But then they made that lagoons and they made that harbor, and they blew up 80 feet down. So if there is a surge and all that water moves out, Honokai Hale’s gonna take a beating cause that's 80 feet down. That's a big wave. We are now in the zone, da red zone.

CH: Yeah, the landscape has changed a lot with just the development. What do you, how did you experience that yourself? Another, newer resident was telling us, you know, that it was sort of heartbreaking to see Aulani come up, and it was major change in how she felt about the West Side.

NDS: I think for me, it's a double-sided sword. Because I’m a singer, I got paid good money singing down there. So it benefited me. I'm sure that if it didn't benefit me, I would probably feel the same as her. Because now cannot just freely go down to the beach. We can go to Lanikuhonua, but we cannot just go to any of the lagoons wheneva we like. But there's also, at Lanikuhonua, there's also no shower. You know, so, that's the only lagoon they cannot stop us from going to.

CH: But the lagoons are not, are they off limits to people?

NDS: Not in the way of, like, there's certain times you can be at the lagoons, right? Well back then, Lanikuhonua was the only place that really is only local people there. The rest are tourists from the hotels. I don't know if anybody has told people, but, my mom said, “No go maha’oi ova dea. Das for them guys. Okay.”

CH: Yeah, so it felt segregated to you.

NDS: Yeah, but you know, of course we have the nicest lagoon, Lanikuhonua. I mean, it can't get better than that. That's a God-made lagoon. There was a time that I did go on the reef, and I walked on the reef, and it was all white. And the reef, the reef never looked like that my whole life. And, I don't know what was the cause of it, but neva have no ʻopihi, neva have seaweed, nevahave nothin on the reef. I tink - I really don't know why it was like that, but it was kind of scary to me.

CH: The human manipulation of it, I suspect.

NDS: Could be, or just the boats in general, maybe all the oil. There's a lot of things that, that goes on that we don't know what affects the ocean, but to not even have ʻopihi on the reef was, like, that's, that's food, you know.

CH: Do you remember other things about the fish or birds or other animals of the coast, of the beach and which, you know, places?

NDS: No, I don't. I just know that whenever anybody from Honokai went down thea and went fishing, we would all be together. Like, [imitating fishermen] “Who, eh, who like, who like fight dis fish?” You know, cause they were really good fishermen. I'm the one that had the $10 pole, that when the fish get on em and you pull the fish, the pole break in half. But everybody else had the real expensive fishing pole, so when they would catch something, [imitating fisherman] “Hey, you like fight em?” and I'd be reeling em in, and I never even cared what kind of fish had on. [I’d go] “I caught one fish!” A lot of them have dere preferences of what fish they like to eat. I jus’ like to eat, so bring in the fish and I'll eat em [all laughing].

CH: So you guys went fishing a lot, or you fished and ate fish pretty frequently, and that was never a problem or like hard to find the fish or-?

NDS: Sometimes, I don't catch anything. I just, I just mainly dea for drink the bea [all laughing] and, they would catch, we would eat 'em. And again, because of my singing, it took me away from all of that stuffs. A part of it is, why I stopped singing was because I felt like I was missing out on a lot of things. A part of it is just the emotional thing, right? But those were happy times being at the ocean, being able to hang out with, I mean, once in a while, everybody shows up, it's kind of crazy, right? You no see people for years and den they over dea fishing, you hanging out, drinking bea . Those were good times.

CH: Was it pretty like mixed ages or, or did you spend time with other, you know, 15 year-olds, 16-year-olds more?

NDS: All of us were all different. Like my, my brother is, my oldest brother is, I think he's like seven years older than me, so there's his age bracket. And my other brother that passed away, he's two years younger, and then my sister is a year younger than him, and then there's me. So, all of our ages, we just hang out with everybody. Cause Honokai was so small, you just, they were your friends, they were your family.

CH: And what about uncles and aunties, were they there too, mixed in?

NDS: Not, not all the time. When we would do community things, everybody would be there. Going down to the beach is mostly the kids.

CH: I'm curious, I'm interested to go back to the, knowing more about your Jehovah's Witness relationship, you know, how that might have impacted your experience at Honokai Hale.

NDS: We were the only Jehovah's Witness in Honokai Hale. So there was a lot of things that they would do as a community that we couldn't be a part of because of the church's beliefs. It would be kind of sad when I would see pictures of people that, you know, they went Halloween, they went trick or treating, and they're in all of their get-ups, and you would never see me in any of those pictures. When they would be popping firecrackah and hanging out, I wouldn't be there. There's a lot that I missed out on. There's a lot that I don't know, and I don't remember because of the religion. But that was life, right?

CH: So do you feel like Honokai Hale, you know, maybe some families were different, but everybody respected each other, treated each other like everyone was welcome? Was it very friendly?

NDS: Oh, definitely! They never, if they said anything bad about us, I'd never heard it. We still went to school together. We still had lunch together, we still would hang out at after school. It was just mainly the functions that, again, like Christmas, New Years, Halloweens, birthdays. I never had a birthday cake until I was on a truck, and I think it was what, 2012? There was a lot of things that we missed out on because of the religion. But, nobody ever treated us any different. They were still our friends.

CH: Okay. Sella, you want to look at the next one? The next section?

SK: I was just wondering if, just like, do you kind of miss the Honokai Hale you knew, or is it just kind of a bigger emotion towards when you think about the past and what you grew up with?

NDS: Well, yeah - we lost a lot of people, and, I wish we. n spite of everything, we were all close. We would joke around, we'd tease each oddah, but it's always meant in a good way. It's always meant for a good laugh, so there's a lot of changes as far as, your friends passing away, your friends moving. Wherever I am, whatever I do, the island always calls you. And Honokai is always home. It's just a different feeling for me going there because I'm not going home, I'm just driving through the community just to see my old house. I miss it.

SK: Wow. Since I know you do have children and then also to just like other people who are not from Honokai or the next generation that are kind of passing through and learning more about the area, what would you like them to know? About, you know, what they're looking at, what it used to be, or anything up to you?

NDS: Being secluded is not a bad thing. Because we were secluded, and we still had had fun. Everybody still sort of keeps in touch on Facebook. We still laugh and joke about things that happened back then. We might have been the smallest community on the island, but we were very proud people. We're proud of where we're from.

SK: Wow. Wow, that's so cool. I'm like, the more I learn about Honokai Hale, the more it's like, not jealous, but kind of like, Ho, you know, even though it's just a lot you guys went through and like, obviously the history with, how isolated you were, every time I hear just a little bit more about em, like, I just already see it in my head. I was like, wow, just having such a close-knit community that I feel like, I don't know, as a younger person in this generation, it's kind of hard to see that. Now, cause everyone's older and not that, at least that's what I grew up with, even though I'm local, even on the West Side, so it's just really, really interesting to hear that.

NDS: Well, you know, my dad coached a football team, and the Federicks, the dad, he coached another football team out of Barber's Point. They didn't have enough boys to play, so they allowed Honokai and Makakilo to play along with them. I think that's how a lot of the friendship starts when, when you have to play on a team with boys that are military.

You know, there's, there's, what happened back then in, in old Hawai'i and them taking our land and, you know, it's, it's still full fledged, nowadays. You know, I don't know if back when I was going to school, I don't know if it's happening now. But the last day of school was called Kill Haole Day. Where you would just beat up anybody that was white, honestly. I don’t know if it’s recently. Yes, so, so having that and playing on the same football team with them, that was your teammate. But then it's the last day of school and you're white. You know?

CH: Honestly. I've, I've heard of that. You've never heard of that, Sella?

SK: I mean, possibly, not recently at all. I don't know if it's recently, but it was, um, growing up. Closing out about Honokai and, like, talk about your background, family, all that kind of stuff. Is there anything else that we didn't cover or didn't ask that you would still like to share with us?

NDS: I probably would like to share is that, and I think this is why Honokai means a lot to me is because my dad purchased a house not even knowing how many lives he would change. People would come to our house if they're going through a divorce and their husband is beating them. My dad would have them come and live with us. The lady, the lady, and her kids. When somebody is coming in from wherever and they don't have a place to stay, they could always stay at our house. My dad made sure that it was a family house and anybody that needed to come could come. So at one point there was five generations living in my house at one time.

CH: Wow. How many bedrooms? [laughs]

NDS: The original house was a three-bedroom, one and a half bath, that was the original house. He built a patio, him and one of the guys that lived down the street, I think his name is Mr. Quinsut. He was a magical mason. He had like a water fountain in his backyard, like the kind that you see in rich people houses. [all of us laughing, saying wow] He built that he built it. I think it's still there. And anyway, so we made a room and a bathroom downstairs and then we made two more rooms in the back and then three more rooms upstairs. We ended up with like seven bedrooms and four showers. And we just keep expanding because we don't say no, right? Somebody needs someplace to sleep. You might not have one bed, you might have to sleep on the floor, but we can pull out one haliʻi.

CH: Was your father just a very generous person? Like, was that part of his faith? What, what do you think led to that?

NDS: My mom was Jehovah's Witness, but my dad was a Catholic. Okay. I think for him, he left his house at 16, and he was on his own from 16. So, he liked having his family around him. And even when people got married and left, or like in my case, I would just leave because I'm making bad choices. Whenever daddy calls, you go home, right? In spite of whatever I'm doing, no matter what I'm doing, daddy calls, you go home. So that was always the safe haven for anybody dat needed someplace safe. So that's what Honokai is for me. It's a safe place.

CH: That's a good feeling to have.

NDS: Yeah.

CH: What was your father's name?

NDS: Len De Los Santos.

CH: Okay, so that's your brother's name then too.

NDS: Yes.

CH: Where, where does your brother live these days, Len?

NDS: He lives in Ewa.

CH: Okay, on island.

NDS: Yeah.

CH: Yeah, we'd be excited to talk to him. We like to connect in person whenever we can, so maybe we can make that happen. If you feel comfortable, you know, sharing his details with Ulukoa, if he doesn't already have them, and then we can, we can follow up or work it out with Ulukoa to see like who's gonna do what.

NDS: Okay, yeah. Well, he'll be excited. Somebody wants to talk to him [all laughing].

CH: Yeah, of course. Why not? I don't want to take too much of your time, but you know, it's, it's been, really nice to get to know you. And it sounds like you have gone through such impressive experiences, some of which were hard. I know you had to make some difficult choices, but it sounds like you're a really strong person.

NDS: Well, thank you.

CH: I'd love to hear your music. I don't know how to try to get my hands on it.

NDS: I think you can [on] YouTube. There's a few songs on YouTube.

CH: Great. Okay. Um, would you, you know, be interested in us talking to you again about Pidgin?

NDS: Absolutely.

CH: Okay. Yay! [laughs] There's so many things we can talk about, but I know that there's lots of, you know, there's more, especially Native Hawaiians outside of Hawaiʻi now than on the islands, which is tragic. Because there are so many Native Hawaiians and other local people moved away for economic reasons, largely, there's Pidgin all over the continent, too. So this is really fascinating to hear more about that, but also to hear more about your growing up experiences with Pidgin. So we would be interested in both of those kinds of things.

NDS: Okay.

CH: Yeah. All right. Well, maybe we'll stop here. And, oh, I was supposed to ask you, have you got any Pidgin in your songs? Ulukoa wants to know.

NDS: In my songs, um, no. But if he writes them, I can, do it [all laughing].

CH: Okay. He probably will. [laughs] All right, Naomi. Well, mahalo nui. We are grateful to you and we're looking forward to talking to you again.

NDS: Thank you for doing this.

SK: Thank you. It was really nice meeting you. Nice chatting, and next time I hope to talk to you again soon so I can tell you more about maybe I am related to Ed Kahapea. I go, I go check him out. [laughs]

NDS: Okay!